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TOPIC: Second Class Citizen

Second Class Citizen 3 years 2 months ago #13838

  • William R. Morgan
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I am Retired from the Navy and have been trying to reserve a camping space at Fiddler's Cove in San Diego. As a retiree I can't reserve a space before 6 months. There is never a space open due to the fact everyone else can reserve a year in advance. Why don't you just say it is only available for Active Duty and be done with it.

Second Class Citizen 3 years 2 months ago #13839

  • dubob
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Unfortunately, your subject title says it all. Once you retired, you became a 'Second Class Citizen' as far as the military is concerned. Have you ever tried getting any medical care from a military hospital since you retired? Good luck with that one.
Bob Hicks, from Utah
I’m 76 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
“Free men don't ask permission to bear arms.” ― Glen Aldrich

Second Class Citizen 3 years 2 months ago #13841

  • floridakamper
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I'm proud to be second in line behind our active duty men and women. Unless they're using a recreational campground as base housing.
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Second Class Citizen 3 years 1 week ago #13935

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Yep, you are Mr Second Class Citizen now.
And getting worse.


It is a fact that majority of the folks in the military today have no intention of staying. When it gets hot they get out.

Military retirees did their 20, or 20+ they need to be thanked more than being treated like a second class citizen.

Floridakamper, yep far too many HOMESTEADERS these days. FamCamps are not enforcing their own rules of X days and move on.
Last edit: by travelGuy.

Second Class Citizen 3 years 1 week ago #13937

  • bill6750
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Travel Guy,
I have never flew space A, what cat are retirees? It seems that we are before the Cat 4's or 5's as said in the above. Why do they get to go ahead if that is the case? Explain please?
Thanks,
Bill & Jean
Bill Retired US Army,
Viet Nam Vet, 24th Evac. Hosp.
Jean Retired from DOA
2014 Tiffin Phaeton, 40'
2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 in Toe

Second Class Citizen 3 years 1 week ago #13938

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All you want to know - or not(!), can be found at the sited website.

www.amc.af.mil/amctravel/

For your entertainment, I have extracted the following:

SPACE AVAILABLE TRAVEL ELIGIBILITY

A complete listing of eligible passengers by category is contained in DoD 4515.13-R.
The following is a partial listing of eligible individuals.

Category I:

Emergency travel in connection with serious illness, death, or impending death of a member of the immediate family of the following:

United States citizen civilian employees of the DoD stationed overseas.

Full-time, paid personnel of the American Red Cross serving with United States military services overseas.

Uniformed service family members whose sponsors are stationed within the Continental United States (CONUS) and the emergency exists overseas.

Family members of United States citizen civilian employees of the DoD when both sponsor and dependents are stationed overseas at the same location.

Category II:

Sponsors on environmental and morale leave (EML) and accompanied family members.

DoD Dependent School (DoDDS) teachers and their accompanied family members in EML status during school year holiday or vacation periods.

Category III:

Members of the uniformed services in an ordinary or re-enlistment leave status and uniformed services patients on convalescent leave. Members on convalescent leave may not travel overseas unless their leave form is so annotated.

Military personnel traveling on permissive temporary duty (TDY) orders for house hunting.

If the permissive TDY is for the purpose of permanent change of station house hunting, the member travels in Category III and can be accompanied by one family member.

Dependents of military members deployed for more than 365 consecutive days.

Bona fide family members (up to age 23 with a valid identification card) of a service member of the uniformed services when accompanied by their sponsor who is in an ordinary leave status within overseas areas between overseas stations and air terminals in the CONUS.

This privilege does not apply to travel of dependents to or from a sponsor's restricted or unaccompanied tour location or to travel in a leave status to or from TDY locations. It applies only to round-trip travel to an overseas area or the CONUS with the sponsor. DoD 4515.13-R restricts use of these privileges to establish a home for family members in an overseas area or the CONUS.

Foreign exchange service members on permanent duty with the DoD, when in a leave status.

Category IV:

Dependents of military members deployed for more than 120 consecutive days.

Unaccompanied family members (18 years or older) traveling on EML orders. Family members under 18 must be accompanied by an adult family member who is traveling EML.

DoDDS teachers or family members (accompanied or unaccompanied) in an EML status during summer break.

Category V:

Unaccompanied Command-sponsored dependents.

Students whose sponsor is stationed in Alaska or Hawaii.

Students enrolled in a trade school in the CONUS when the sponsor is stationed overseas.

Military personnel traveling on permissive TDY orders for other than house hunting.

Category VI:

National Guard/Reserve components/members of the Ready Reserve and members of the Standby Reserve who are on the Active Status List.

Retired military members who are issued DD Form 2 and eligible to receive retired or retainer pay.

Family members (with a valid identification card) of retired members when accompanied by a sponsor.

Second Class Citizen 3 years 1 week ago #13939

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travelguy, looking at the list a retiree is Cat 6. So I guess Cat 1 to 5 gets priority over a retiree. Which of those do you think a military retiree should have priority over.
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Last edit: by floridakamper.

Second Class Citizen 3 years 1 week ago #13940

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travelGuy wrote: Worse is when you, as a retiree, fly space a. You are in for a shock when you see those CAT IVs and CAT Vs get on before you. Abuse of the system.


How is it abuse of the system? Retirees are Cat VI, so I'd expect Cat I-V to get on first. Sounds like they are following the system that they spelled out on their website.

Right from their main page "There is no guaranteed space for any traveler." Space-A is a privilege...not a right.
Last edit: by airpower.

Second Class Citizen 3 years 1 week ago #13941

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I wish more people would put on their little profile snippet what they were when they were in. It seems there are a whole bunch of retirees who think they deserve more than their retirement check and medical care. We did our time and most of us move on to second careers but still have a sense of entitlement towards the military. Get over it and take what they do give us and move on with your lives and quit whining when a campground is full or a line is long due to active warfighters being in front of of you. If the want to homestead, more power to them. What I hate is retirees thinking that military campgrounds are there for them and them only with the 40 foot buses and dust mop dogs. You don't like it, go camp on the economy out in the real world and pay 50 a night. In florida you can't even hardly find a weekend spot because of all the damn snowbirds that don't like the cold. I wish the campgrounds would change all their rules to 14 day max stay for retirees. then two weeks out. At least wee would all have the opportunity to enjoy the facilities that are graciously provided to us at such a low cost.
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Second Class Citizen 3 years 1 week ago #13944

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Dojdakota, Dojdakota, wow such wisdom from you. Where do you get it from?

Again, if they are running a FamCamp for ALL cats to use as PAYING customers, then there is an expectation that facilities will be clean and properly ran.

Homesteaders...mmmm,,, here we go again. FamCamps are not housing. They are not mobile home parks. They are campgrounds for ALL people to use.

The problem I have with HOMESTEADERS is certain FamCamps have written policies on who can stay and how long they can stay at a FamCamp....and they violate their own rules. Letting one (be it retiree or active duty..does not matter that cat) stay long term. Ignoring their own rules/regulations. And they turn around and tell someone they have to move or can only say X days "because the rules say so." When you know darn well they look the other way for friends, good olde boys and others.
If they have rules then enforce them equally across the board.


I DO have a expectation that ALL retirees be treated in a professional manner. I am not expecting a hand out. Or think I am better than anyone else.
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Last edit: by travelGuy.

Second Class Citizen 3 years 1 week ago #13946

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The CAT list you copied and posted is out of date.

Dependents of military members deployed for more than 365 consecutive days was recently changed.

To: "IF your sponsor is deployed for 30 consecutive days or more. Unaccompanied dependents of deployed military members, including Reserve and Guard personnel, when the deployment order is between 30 and 364 consecutive days, are authorized to travel Space-A, unaccompanied in Category IV. This includes Navy personnel assigned to a deployed ship with Permanent Change of Station orders. Travel must be completed before the end of the sponsor's deployment period. Travel is authorized to/from CONUS and OCONUS locations, between CONUS locations, and within/between OCONUS theaters."

It is now 30 days. Which means more CAT 4s
Last edit: by travelGuy.

Second Class Citizen 3 years 1 week ago #13948

  • UH1-Vietnam
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Personally I do not think a shopping mom/dad should ever get on a space a flight before a military retiree who has already earned his/her place.
Last edit: by UH1-Vietnam.

Second Class Citizen 3 years 1 week ago #13949

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And regarding homesteaders. Policy of max stay for 30 or 60 days and move out for 30 or 60 days should be made at the DOD level. For everyone. No exceptions. The military camp grounds are not mobile home parks. From my experience going to military camp grounds the longer someone stays there the more trouble they tend to cause. Some homesteaders act like they own the place after a few months or years staying there. This applies equally to retirees and active duty and civil service.
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Second Class Citizen 3 years 1 week ago #13953

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Dojdakota,

Took a look at your profile. Oh my, yours is lacking some info.
Last edit: by UH1-Vietnam.
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