National Parks and DAV discounts

We've had discussion here and there about the "DAV"s and the Golden Access Pass, now called something else -- America Beautiful pass, or something similar.

And, as with some other areas of government business, some of the "work" contracts are going out to private contractors or concessionaires ... and with the private sector moving in, the discounts move out -- because the private sector is not required to honor the Passes. I know some aspects of the national parks are now contracted "privates" now. Does anyone know if any congressional "thinking" about privatizing the national park and forest campgrounds is beginning.

In many areas, private contracts take over the job of what was once government employees -- I suspect this comes under the guise of meeting a budget -- remove an item form the budget, place it in the private sector and the cost disappears from the budget and the budget appears smaller ... the "subject" suddenly funded by the "user fees" ... supposedly illegal under some federal law, but a "duck by any other name, still quacks" ...

What might eventually happen when the private sector takes over the national campgrounds, and then decides that the passes are no longer honored ??? We DAV's suddenly lose another benefit ... half-off the CG fees - small fee, granted, but add all these little snips and it mounts up over time. Costs the government nothing, so the government continues allowing the benefit. But may allow the "new NP campground authority to degrade the passes -- mine says "for life" -- but it seems it might not be the case if privatization continues in the federal arena.

So, what does anyone think about this issue ??

I work for the national parks and the national forests as a volunteer every summer and they are not privatiziing anything that I have heard of or seen. With the exception of giving camping fee collections and campground hosting to several private enterprises to hire and control but they still follow under the parks and forest service system. They also turned over the control and operations of the gift shops to private enterprises to operate them for them but that goes all the way back to the 40's. I dont forsee anything changing more than that any time soon.

QUOTE: "With the exception of giving camping fee collections and campground hosting to several private enterprises to hire and control but they still follow under the parks and forest service system."

This is what I mean by the first step -- once private enterprise gets a foot in the door, they always try to kick it open ... so the obvious next step would be "take over operation" and when that happens, out goes the discount if the procedure follows history.

The proposal might read something like -- "To the federal government, think how much money you'd save if we (private enterprise) managed the NP and forest campgrounds. YOU could fire all the gate and CG rangers and lower your budget." ... or some other such nonsense. And it often looks much better on paper than in practical application, particularly for the folks that use the facilities ... prices ALWAYS go up ... and services become minimized.

We worked last summer, and again this summer, for one of those "private enterprises" for a large portion of a National Forest. We (the company) manage, collect fees, clean, and almost everything else to do with all of the Forest Service campgrounds in our permit area (30+ campgrounds).

The company I work for has to pay for all supplies, paint, equipment, trucks, fuel, maintenance, wages, etc. (It costs us over $15,000 a MONTH just to have the dumpsters emptied at 15 campgrounds). The only thing we don't pay for in the upkeep of these campgrounds is long term improvements. We collect and keep all of the fees, EXCEPT that the Forest Service gets 20% of the gross (I think). Where I am, the Forest Service LOVES having us managing the campgrounds. They state we offer a higher quality of service than they provided prior to the permit system. THEY state their budget was so low, they couldn't keep the campgrounds in good shape. Since the company I work for has come in, the quality of the campgrounds has GREATLY increased, and the Forest Service is making money for almost no expense. (It's not quite this simple).

We do have a set of rules, regulations, and expectations from the Forest Service that we need to meet. We get weekly inspections by them. We also get graded at the end of each season. The company has a "special permit" to manage the recreaton areas and campgrounds. Usually, these are 5 or 10 year permits. If we don't obtain a staisfactory rating, most likelyt we don't get the permit renewed. The permit will be issued to another private enterprise. There's about 4 or 5 major private enterprises doing campground management, with dozens of smaller companies doing the same thing on a smaller, local level.

But monkey44 is partly correct. At least in our area, the private enterprise "can" decide NOT to accept the America the Beautiful Senior/Access 50% discount. It's no longer the government setting and collecting the fees. Although the campgrounds are owned by the Forest Service, the permit we get turns them over to the company. Basically, we're leasing the campground property from the government. Luckily, where I work, we do accept the discount cards for camping, but not day use parking.

If you'll notice, I think the new America the Beautiful Senior/Access passes state the discount "may" be accepted.

Don't flame me. I just work for this company, which is a good job for the summer. I see good and bad points to the idea of private enterprise managing these campgrounds. If not, the Forest Service would be forced to close many of the campgrounds. We already see this happening. And this isn't no sales hype from the private enterprise. The Forest Service in my area recently did a 5-year study of Recreation Management. They're closing 4 campgrounds, since they need major improvements.

I'm not trying to stick up for anyone, but there's a LOT more to this issue than the government simply turning over business to private enterprise. While we may not like all of the results from this practice, it may be the best option to keep campgrounds open for recreational use.

NO flame here, just trying to get discussion going on what happens to our benefits. And what happens is, it disappears.

Problem is, when a benefit disappears, no one ever replaces it in my fixed pension... What happens is we (retired, DAV) get a fixed amount every month, and we can spread it a little better when we have this benefit, which in fact cost no one anything to provide it -- I'm sure at least half-price certainly covers any paper or water I might use in the restrom etc ... but it helps in the long run when a pension raise each year amounts to 2.3% like this year, and then one more mini-benefit loss takes a part of that away - and if we're not otherwise employed.

And I understand it's not quite as simple as contract/work/keep open CGs etc ... but I also hope that maybe some of these private contractors would recognize that some of us already gave something up to earn that benefit, and in at least one sense, allows the contractor to remain in business -- and I'm talking here about recognizing those of us, and I mean all veterans - not just DAV - that keep the USA free ... When I read that back of my card, it says for the life-time of the holder ... and last time I looked, I'm still kicking around.

Now, they take that one away, the one that says "entitled" to a discount, and replace it with one that says "MAY" receive a discount. I still have my original card, but have been told by others that this card gets "confiscated" and the new one with "MAY" substituted ... mandatory. Once again, this is not my idea of recognition nor in any way fair to those of us that earned this and believed the card when it was issued. And, if they do take it away, there goes any "evidence" ... and this is not a just once in a while thing anymore, with benefits I mean ... it seems to be a continuous erosion -- medical co-pays rise, drug co-pays rise, commissary becomes "contract groceries" instead of actually run by on-base personnel -- so when does this stop??

Just curious - if you still have your "original" card, that means you've still got the paper card that they have been replacing/"confiscating" on-sight for several years now. So how much are you using this benefit if you still have that card? :-

From our experience, we have yet to encounter a park where the gov't has turned over a formerly agency-run campground to a contract operation that now refuses to accept the card. I guess I just can't get excited about this.